kh meetings were utter hell.
the boredom, particularly for a child, was awful.
i feel it was a form of child abuse.
It is very interesting that no one found them even mediocre. I truly thought there was something wrong with me b/c everyone reported how much they loved it. For a while, my siblings and I outdid each other saying how great they were. So parental pleasing runs in families. I have a fairly extensive extended JW family. My cousins said they were wonderful! I had no peer group in the Witnesses so until this site, I was completely isolated about what others truly thought.
The Emperor has no clothes!
here is the promised debate.
the subject is whether or not god has an organization.
i'll start things simply:.
Note that the thread starter is AWOL.
watch 1974 p.167 "by disobediently overindulging in food and making a glutton of himself, he fails to show love for jehovah...if in the presence of others does he selfishly ignore there needs and take more than his share?
is he grossly overwieght but shows no restraint at all as to food, habitually gorging himself?
does he feel un-comfortable, perhaps even sick because of eating too much ...glutton has no place in god's congregation...they will not inherit god's kingdom...".
Gluttony for pleasure is very rare. It is an addiction, caused mostly by emotional problems. It is NOT a lack of self control. When I was a teenager, I was seriously underweight. Now I have diabetes, genetic, and see how the difference in blood glucose regulation affects my appetite. I am mostly extremely ravenous or I have no appetite. This is Middle Ages thinking. Where are the supports to get help?
I would be stunned if there were no fatties at Bethel. Eating disorders can be managed. Overeaters Anonymous helps many with the concept of a Higher Power termed God. Witnesses can't do Twelve Step. So what help does a sufferer find?
during a potluck for the hotel where i work, two housekeepers got into a fight because of some petty stuff thats been going on (so ready to quit but havent been job hunting like i should).
anywho, the head housekeepers starts bitching at the housekeeping supervisor and then bust out the other lead housekeeper, saying that she smells like a bag of onions!
i did not attend (i work third shift, and only attended event at work the first year that the hotel opened (2008).
I volunteered at a mental health program. One client smelled horribly. He was highly educated and just seemed the fastidious type in every other way. It smelled even after he left a room. He wasn't schizoprehnic. None of the schizophrenics smelled. He was brilliant yet he could not land any job in his field. It certainly was not my place. I wondered though why he wasn't stopped from attending the program. The schizoprhrenics would have been. It is possible that he had a medical condition. What if he was just lazy with hygiene and no one on staff talked to him? Maybe his life would have been demonstrably better.
Knowing him, I am surprised he did not wear a fancy men's cologne.
i used to get pretty good marks in high school, until it came to situations that required me to give my own opinion.. my social studies teacher used to get quite frustrated with me when it came to anything political.
we were asked to write paragraphs on how we feel about different issues.
i always did something like: "this side feels this way, that side feels that way, here are the pro's and con's to each side, then maybe some obscure comment that didn't really state what my stand was".
I've faced this problem most of my life. Business people are comfortable with risk. They want to know their risk exposure so they can make wise decisions. I would research and write the pros and cons. A law prof. might be interested. It is so painful for me to reach a conclusion. Of course, in the body I can state the pros and cons but a bottom line is needed.
I've asked for comments/feedback on my writing samples. Several people ask me what I thought about what happened. B/c it is informal, I can tell them. We were raised to not think for ourselves. Professionally, people aren't that impressed with factual detail. It is certainly important but people expect everyone to know the facts. Creativity is called for and admired. This is exactly what was beaten out of me. It is strange b/c I have very strong opinions. I just like to not reveal them to authority figures.
As I climbed from part-time high school jobs up the ladder, I feared the scrutiny of my betters. Repeatedly, I have found the lowest level the least interested in opinion. I am utterly shocked when someone asks my opinion. Within certain structures, I can argue forcefully. I don't have sufficient courage for my convictions.
No matter what I did in JWs it was never good enough. My brother would get much praise for simply being male. I tried so hard for recognition. Also, I learned doublespeak at home. My parents were active but had doubts. I still don't understand why they complied with all the Witness rules which were so oppressive but had significant doubts. It sounds funny b/c I don't think of my parents as children of parents that they wanted to please. They are always mighty and adult in my view. People pleasing must be an epidemic in the Witnesses.
took my final final exam to end my course work.
for my aas in complementary and alternative .
medicine, so when all the applications and .
Congratulations is too inadequate a word. Hope you are celebrating in style. What an impressive grade.
So can you give us some aromatherapy tips beyond what would be in a woman's mag?
I spritz French lavendar water on sheets and clothing to be affected. Strangely, I don't like lavendar. I adore lily of the valley.
it was kind of a sad realization i had the other day that as a witness you are conditioned to not have friends.
i realize that most of this fact is related to my own stupidity and arrogance.
when i was in my teenage years i had a great group of friends that i ran around with.
Ia cried my heart out as a child and teenager. Praying for one friend. Friendships at school were easy. If I were worthy of friends at school, I thought I was no good and would perish at Armageddon. My problem was compounded b/c we were the only whites in a black congregation. People were friendly but not friends. I would look at any my age at assemblies with keen interest. Maybe they would move. My mom told me she had no friends, too. She was raised a Witness and had loads of friends growing up. Most of the men went to federal prison. There was tight knit group. Everyone knew everyone else.
My parents could have acted more to help. It would have been nice to invite someone over to my house to play, listen to music. I don't think they did it on purpose. They did not have social skills. My stalwart JW aunt, so faithful and meek, visited my semi=apostate mom one day to cry so hard about her lack of social education. She made my promise I would be allowed to go to dances, party, and have friends. They were such active, devout Witnesses with many contacts in Brooklyn. They both cried about their loneliness and let us know they were crying.
My mother's bro was a special overseer. In fact, he was offered money to take on a particularly bad NJ congregation. He angrily refused. HIs children acted out at having to be perfect. My uncle was fed up with having to be perfect. He went from absolutely faithful, true believer to abandoning his family and being selfish in two months.
I found this thread very moving.
since we have a lot of canadian friends on this board, i have to ask - who are your favorite canadian bands?.
mine is rush.
they have been one of my favorite bands ever since i can remember.. they totally rule........the music and lyrics are all top notch.. the other one is the tea party - jeff martin is a genius.
Neil Young for almost fifty years now. Still counting. Still loving.
Besides the music, Neil Young has such a likeable character. He comes across as easy going and very bright.
here is the promised debate.
the subject is whether or not god has an organization.
i'll start things simply:.
I am a early Christian nut. Because of my Witness upbringing, I place almost too much emphasis on the BIble. Jesus selected very common fishermen, not highly educated Pharisees. Jesus' teachings are not an example of crystal clear doctrine setting. Several themes run through his teachings. Most of his teachings already existed in Judaism, outside of Temple Worship. He dined with Pharisees. In many ways, Jesus was a Pharisee. Jesus could have had paid scribes to dictate the Nicene Creed or the Apostle's Creed. He could have given very good lectures on Christology, his basic nature. Was he God? Was he a minor figure as the Witnesses teach? The biggest debates showing a total lack of organization were the Christology debates.
My faith teaches me that Christ was God but not conscious of it during his ministry. God sacrificing God is no big deal. Certainly Jesus had the power to enforce strict dogma and a strong, cult like organization. He chose the opposite course. The lesson I take from this is that faith was more important than doctrine. Purity of heart and action mattered and on an individual level. He clearly wanted some vague organization b/c he called The Twelve and commissioned them. The lack of doctrine and organization is no accident. His teachings and his very self are timeless as a result. Every time I read the NT, I find something new, fresh, and puzzling. The King of Kings could have me know the Nicene and Apostle's Creed in my heart, rather than know the church bulletin.
The Trinity is an extrapolation but the Witness doctrine is extrapolition, too. I ponder why Jesus did not address his dual nature or his whatever status. Fundamentally, Christ's nature is what draws people. The Holy Spirit, not his teachings that were not that unique. The biggest hurdle is that I do doubt as Thomas did. I am free to ponder. Why would a loving God have no church from the Easter Christ to the 19th century? It is ludicrous. The list of Christian martyrs is long. I find it odd that the English translator and publisher of the Bible, Tyndale, could be burned as a dangerous heretic. Yet the Witnesses would deny me my right to use all the skills God gave me and read the Bible. People at Bethel are not direct representatives of Christ. I love being part of a community but my free will is intact. With my doubts I have far more faith in God/Christ than I ever did as a Witness.
This thread has personal opinions and disputes just as early Christians did. There are many objective facts that negate a Witness like organization.
two of mine are named tina.. i don't know the names of the others.. do you know yours?.
syl.
Clara is the only one I know. Maybe I should pay ancestry.com their fee. I would often ask about deceased people. No one would really talk to me. I think there has been a vast cultural change. My family emigrated from Ruthyn in the late 1800s and Holland. They insisted there were American only. They were ashamed of the old country. My father told me we were from Russia during the Cold War. Ruthyns hate Russians with a passion. I always wanted to visit the ancestral homes.
I was in Holland and could not find out from relatives anything. What little I know, I've pieced together from many sources.
About 30 years ago, I saw a local play in NJ that ended with pretty much the same question to show how unrooted we are. If Queen Elizabeth can be proud of his ancestry so can I.
